CCS64 Forum

The new version is really great - especially that "sync to screen" is working correctly now!

BUT - unfortunately - when quitting cc64.exe it crashes (screen freezes) and I have to start the task manager to kill the task to be able to return to Windows (using full screen mode, screen resolution 352x288 in 50 Hz). So I can not set any options because they are only saved when quitting the emulator. Thank god I do not have to change any settings for now...

I also noticed that it happens now and then that keys that are defined for the joystick get stuck again (as mentioned in my previous posting). I got rid of this problem with ccs64 3.5 but now, with 3.9, I have this problem again. Sometimes e.g. the key for "left" gets stuck - I can walk to the right, up or press firebutton but as soon as I release the joystick the player walks to the left again. This stays that way until I press the key for "left" again - then it is released and it is working normally again. But it occurs again now and then. This is veeeeery unpleasant... It seems that this does only happen with Joystick 1, I've not experienced this when a game is controlled by Joystick 2. I've read in the history that something similar happend with Windows 2000/NT.

Moreover saving to Windows file system directories still does not work. Games still have to be on disk images to be able to save. This is simply inconvenient because if you do not notice that before saving, the emulator hangs and you can not save anymore.

I'm using Win XP SP3 (32bit) on an AMD X4 640 (4x3 GHz) with 4 GB RAM (I upgraded in the mean time from my AMD X2 4200+ to the AMD X4 640). Now it's even faster - and there is no excuse anymore that the processor is not fast enough for CCS64...

That was the reason why I thought a RC would be better before releasing the final 3.9 version...

ClarkKent wrote:The new version is really great - especially that "sync to screen" is working correctly now!
BUT - unfortunately - when quitting cc64.exe it crashes (screen freezes) and I have to start the task manager to kill the task to be able to return to Windows (using full screen mode, screen resolution 352x288 in 50 Hz). So I can not set any options because they are only saved when quitting the emulator. Thank god I do not have to change any settings for now...

CCS64 does not crash for me when it exits. It closes-down normally (i.e. without crashing) when clicking on the [X] button on the Window (when working in Windowed mode) and also when using the <ALT F4> key-sequence (when working in both Windowed and Full-Screen modes). So, I cannot get CCS64 to crash, whenever it exits back to Windows. Check your DirectX installation. Make sure you are using DirectX 9.0c on Windows XP.

ClarkKent wrote:I also noticed that it happens now and then that keys that are defined for the joystick get stuck again (as mentioned in my previous posting). I got rid of this problem with ccs64 3.5 but now, with 3.9, I have this problem again. Sometimes e.g. the key for "left" gets stuck - I can walk to the right, up or press firebutton but as soon as I release the joystick the player walks to the left again. This stays that way until I press the key for "left" again - then it is released and it is working normally again. But it occurs again now and then. This is veeeeery unpleasant... It seems that this does only happen with Joystick 1, I've not experienced this when a game is controlled by Joystick 2. I've read in the history that something similar happend with Windows 2000/NT.

This does not happen for me. I use keyboard key-sets to emulate both joysticks, since I don't use actual joysticks. I have just re-tested Turbo OutRun in Full-Screen mode and it is perfect, just like in Windowed mode. It still sounds like a performance problem to me. Did you try your previous 'fix' for this (i.e. reducing the sound quality settings to 22 KHz sampling frequency)?

ClarkKent wrote:Moreover saving to Windows file system directories still does not work. Games still have to be on disk images to be able to save. This is simply inconvenient because if you do not notice that before saving, the emulator hangs and you can not save anymore.

Yes, you need to run games from disk/tape image files (D64/T64 files), and save back to those same image files. That is how C64 emulation works, just like in the other emulators, since these file formats replicate the format used by the original C64 file system. Also, you need to make sure that your image files are stored on a part of the hard drive that it not 'protected' by Windows itself. If this is not what you mean, could you please clarify (?).

ClarkKent wrote:I'm using Win XP SP3 (32bit) on an AMD X4 640 (4x3 GHz) with 4 GB RAM (I upgraded in the mean time from my AMD X2 4200+ to the AMD X4 640). Now it's even faster - and there is no excuse anymore that the processor is not fast enough for CCS64...

I am using Windows 7 (64-bit), 4 GB RAM, and an Intel Core-i5 M520 (2.4 GHz), and CCS64 works like a dream. I also have used CCS64 on Windows 98/ME/XP machines with a slower CPU before, without any problems. Try investigating your different settings.

Have you tried the CCS-2005.EXE that is included in the release? That version is built using Visual Studio 2005, instead of Visual Studio 2010, and is more compatible for Windows 98/ME users?

ClarkKent wrote:That was the reason why I thought a RC would be better before releasing the final 3.9 version...

I tested it as much as possible and it was stable for me; so I thought it was better to be released, before the release date gets put back, even longer than 2 years since the previous release, as I mentioned before. On balance, I thought it was the right decision.

Glad to hear that the Sync To Screen option is working correctly. However, is this option causing a slow-down with your system though, due to perhaps updating the graphics a lot more than without using it?

Please investigate and get back to me. So far, you are the only person who has reported these types of problems. But, I will keep an eye on the message-board for any more reports about CCS64 V3.9 problems.

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:The new version is really great - especially that "sync to screen" is working correctly now!
BUT - unfortunately - when quitting cc64.exe it crashes (screen freezes) and I have to start the task manager to kill the task to be able to return to Windows (using full screen mode, screen resolution 352x288 in 50 Hz). So I can not set any options because they are only saved when quitting the emulator. Thank god I do not have to change any settings for now...

CCS64 does not crash for me when it exits. It closes-down normally (i.e. without crashing) when clicking on the [X] button on the Window (when working in Windowed mode) and also when using the <ALT F4> key-sequence (when working in both Windowed and Full-Screen modes). So, I cannot get CCS64 to crash, whenever it exits back to Windows. Check your DirectX installation. Make sure you are using DirectX 9.0c on Windows XP.

Sorry to say that but why does everybody tell to check DirectX or graphics drivers or some other rhetorical advices? I'm not stupid. What does quitting have to do with DirectX when the program is working ok??? Of course, ALT F4 crashes CCS64 the same way as selecting QUIT in the menu. CCS-2005.exe even does not start at all here. 'nough said.

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:I also noticed that it happens now and then that keys that are defined for the joystick get stuck again (as mentioned in my previous posting). I got rid of this problem with ccs64 3.5 but now, with 3.9, I have this problem again. Sometimes e.g. the key for "left" gets stuck - I can walk to the right, up or press firebutton but as soon as I release the joystick the player walks to the left again. This stays that way until I press the key for "left" again - then it is released and it is working normally again. But it occurs again now and then. This is veeeeery unpleasant... It seems that this does only happen with Joystick 1, I've not experienced this when a game is controlled by Joystick 2. I've read in the history that something similar happend with Windows 2000/NT.

This does not happen for me. I use keyboard key-sets to emulate both joysticks, since I don't use actual joysticks. I have just re-tested Turbo OutRun in Full-Screen mode and it is perfect, just like in Windowed mode. It still sounds like a performance problem to me. Did you try your previous 'fix' for this (i.e. reducing the sound quality settings to 22 KHz sampling frequency)?

The sampling frequency is still the same - I can not change anything as CCS64 is crashing on quit. And without quitting correctly it does not save prefs. As a very similar behavior has been described in history it seems that this bug has not totally been fixed...

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:Moreover saving to Windows file system directories still does not work. Games still have to be on disk images to be able to save. This is simply inconvenient because if you do not notice that before saving, the emulator hangs and you can not save anymore.

Yes, you need to run games from disk/tape image files (D64/T64 files), and save back to those same image files. That is how C64 emulation works, just like in the other emulators, since these file formats replicate the format used by the original C64 file system. Also, you need to make sure that your image files are stored on a part of the hard drive that it not 'protected' by Windows itself. If this is not what you mean, could you please clarify (?).

It seems you did not fully understand - CCS64 is not able to save into regular Windows file system. Power64, a C64 emulator for Mac, can save to native file system without any problems. So why should it be a problem for CCS64???

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:I'm using Win XP SP3 (32bit) on an AMD X4 640 (4x3 GHz) with 4 GB RAM (I upgraded in the mean time from my AMD X2 4200+ to the AMD X4 640). Now it's even faster - and there is no excuse anymore that the processor is not fast enough for CCS64...

I am using Windows 7 (64-bit), 4 GB RAM, and an Intel Core-i5 M520 (2.4 GHz), and CCS64 works like a dream. I also have used CCS64 on Windows 98/ME/XP machines with a slower CPU before, without any problems. Try investigating your different settings.

Have you tried the CCS-2005.EXE that is included in the release? That version is built using Visual Studio 2005, instead of Visual Studio 2010, and is more compatible for Windows 98/ME users?

Why should different settings in CCS64 change anything? That's totally illogical. Maybe the new version behave irrational because it was compiled on Windows 7 or such? I know Windows - it does behave illogical. On most things.

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:That was the reason why I thought a RC would be better before releasing the final 3.9 version...

I tested it as much as possible and it was stable for me; so I thought it was better to be released, before the release date gets put back, even longer than 2 years since the previous release, as I mentioned before. On balance, I thought it was the right decision.

Glad to hear that the Sync To Screen option is working correctly. However, is this option causing a slow-down with your system though, due to perhaps updating the graphics a lot more than without using it?

Please investigate and get back to me. So far, you are the only person who has reported these types of problems. But, I will keep an eye on the message-board for any more reports about CCS64 V3.9 problems.

The reason for a public rc should be to have reports from different users and different setups. If you were the only tester I totally understand why this mess occured...

I'm also beta tester for several programs but I know that the coders have some other beta testers to have a reliable base for finding bugs and misbehavior in the code.

ClarkKent wrote:Sorry to say that but why does everybody tell to check DirectX or graphics drivers or some other rhetorical advices? I'm not stupid. What does quitting have to do with DirectX when the program is working ok??? Of course, ALT F4 crashes CCS64 the same way as selecting QUIT in the menu. CCS-2005.exe even does not start at all here. 'nough said.

Surely, the fact that CCS-2005.EXE doesn't even launch on your computer, which is compiled with Visual Studio 2005 (which is therefore more natively compatible with Windows XP), would indicate that there may be something wrong with your Windows (or some of its components). Both CCS.EXE and CCS-2005.EXE are compatible with Windows XP SP2 or later, as you know from the compiler documentation. I mentioned DirectX, since CCS64 is a DirectX/Direct3D application, so it is a safe place to start for possible application problems. It is standard advise. Both EXEs work fine on my PC, as they should on yours. I never stated that you were stupid.

ClarkKent wrote:The sampling frequency is still the same - I can not change anything as CCS64 is crashing on quit. And without quitting correctly it does not save prefs. As a very similar behavior has been described in history it seems that this bug has not totally been fixed...

See my answer above. Is CCS64 trying to save to some protected area of the hard drive (e.g. some Windows system folder to which it has no permission to)?

ClarkKent wrote:It seems you did not fully understand - CCS64 is not able to save into regular Windows file system. Power64, a C64 emulator for Mac, can save to native file system without any problems. So why should it be a problem for CCS64???

It is not a problem with CCS64. That is the way in which CCS64, like any other C64 emulator, should work. As Windows has its own file system, so does the C64. That is why you have to use C64 disk/tape (D64/T64) image files, since they are internally 'formatted' to the C64 file system, which the C64 operating system (within the emulator) understands. A Windows PC cannot interpret native C64 disks, hence their format has been emulated within MS-DOS/Windows files (so that they can be stored on a Windows disk) by using the D64/T64 file format.

ClarkKent wrote:Why should different settings in CCS64 change anything? That's totally illogical. Maybe the new version behave irrational because it was compiled on Windows 7 or such? I know Windows - it does behave illogical. On most things.

I suggested using CCS-2005.EXE, since it is more natively compatible with Windows XP, to see if it was some compiler issue (but obviously it is not). Different settings values obviously impact upon the application performance, due to the varying load that they place on your CPU/graphics hardware. If you are more aware of Windows and/or are more technical than I am, then I will leave you to investigate the matter, and report any solution here (for the benefit of us all), or report your problems to Hakan via e-mail directly (but don't expect an answer from him straight away, since he has very little spare time at the moment).

ClarkKent wrote:If you were the only tester I totally understand why this mess occured...

Not a particularly nice thing to say to somebody who has been involved in the testing and driving forward of CCS64 since 1999, without whom CCS64 would not be as advanced as it is today; however, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I obviously understand and appreciate the value of thorough software testing, since I have 12 years' experience as a Software Developer and Database Administrator in private industry. I don't know how many testers Hakan has for CCS64, but I know that I am one of them. As I said, you are the only person who has reported these problems so far, but we shall see as more people use the new release.

I have now made all of the suggestions that I can think of. My intention was only to try to help you, like with anybody else on this message-board - please let's not have some sort of heated debate about this. When you work out any solution, please post it on this forum, to benefit all of us.

If you want to be a tester for CCS64, or perhaps help in the development of CCS64, then I am sure that Hakan will be delighted to have more help - just e-mail him.

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:Sorry to say that but why does everybody tell to check DirectX or graphics drivers or some other rhetorical advices? I'm not stupid. What does quitting have to do with DirectX when the program is working ok??? Of course, ALT F4 crashes CCS64 the same way as selecting QUIT in the menu. CCS-2005.exe even does not start at all here. 'nough said.

Surely, the fact that CCS-2005.EXE doesn't even launch on your computer, which is compiled with Visual Studio 2005 (which is therefore more natively compatible with Windows XP), would indicate that there may be something wrong with your Windows (or some of its components). Both CCS.EXE and CCS-2005.EXE are compatible with Windows XP SP2 or later, as you know from the compiler documentation. I mentioned DirectX, since CCS64 is a DirectX/Direct3D application, so it is a safe place to start for possible application problems. It is standard advise. Both EXEs work fine on my PC, as they should on yours. I never stated that you were stupid.

There is nothing wrong with my Windows. ALL - and I mean ALL! - applications, games and emulators are running fine. And I've installed A LOT of them! No problems with DirectX at all. I've the latest DirectX 9 for WinXP installed (June/August 2010). Also all versions of the Visual C++ redistributable libraries and .NET frameworks. Only CCS64 crashes. I'm not a Windows pro but I've heard of cases where it caused problems when compiled on Win 7 and running it on Win XP and vice versa. Maybe it would be an idea to try to compile the latest version on a WinXP SP3 installation? By the way - I was wrong about CCS64-2005: it is starting ok as CCS64.exe but crashes on quit, too.

As no other version than 3.9 is crashing on quit you should instead investigate what was changed in the code that something could happen!? I never had any crashes with all versions I ever tried on my WinXP SP3 - not on 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 or 3.8. I still have no crashes if I start 3.5 or 3.8 (I still have them both on my harddrive). So I would consider it logical to say that it can not be my installation.

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:The sampling frequency is still the same - I can not change anything as CCS64 is crashing on quit. And without quitting correctly it does not save prefs. As a very similar behavior has been described in history it seems that this bug has not totally been fixed...

See my answer above. Is CCS64 trying to save to some protected area of the hard drive (e.g. some Windows system folder to which it has no permission to)?

Why should it? The only protected folder is the Windows system folder - and I definitely know what I am doing...

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:It seems you did not fully understand - CCS64 is not able to save into regular Windows file system. Power64, a C64 emulator for Mac, can save to native file system without any problems. So why should it be a problem for CCS64???

It is not a problem with CCS64. That is the way in which CCS64, like any other C64 emulator, should work. As Windows has its own file system, so does the C64. That is why you have to use C64 disk/tape (D64/T64) image files, since they are internally 'formatted' to the C64 file system, which the C64 operating system (within the emulator) understands. A Windows PC cannot interpret native C64 disks, hence their format has been emulated within MS-DOS/Windows files (so that they can be stored on a Windows disk) by using the D64/T64 file format.

OK, then just explain why Power64 can do that what you tell me that is impossible. Save on disk images OR in native file system of the host.

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:Why should different settings in CCS64 change anything? That's totally illogical. Maybe the new version behave irrational because it was compiled on Windows 7 or such? I know Windows - it does behave illogical. On most things.

I suggested using CCS-2005.EXE, since it is more natively compatible with Windows XP, to see if it was some compiler issue (but obviously it is not). Different settings values obviously impact upon the application performance, due to the varying load that they place on your CPU/graphics hardware. If you are more aware of Windows and/or are more technical than I am, then I will leave you to investigate the matter, and report any solution here (for the benefit of us all), or report your problems to Hakan via e-mail directly (but don't expect an answer from him straight away, since he has very little spare time at the moment).

As the settings are the same as from version 3.8 or older I really do not think this could be any problem. But as CCS64 does not save setting right after changing anything but on quit and it is crashing on quit it is a pain in the a... to edit that in the ini. I'll try how it reacts on window mode. Maybe it has something to do with full screen mode. But nevertheless Hakan should ask himself what he changed in the code that the new version could behave this way - especially on quit!?

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:If you were the only tester I totally understand why this mess occured...

Not a particularly nice thing to say to somebody who has been involved in the testing and driving forward of CCS64 since 1999, without whom CCS64 would not be as advanced as it is today; however, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I obviously understand and appreciate the value of thorough software testing, since I have 12 years' experience as a Software Developer and Database Administrator in private industry. I don't know how many testers Hakan has for CCS64, but I know that I am one of them. As I said, you are the only person who has reported these problems so far, but we shall see as more people use the new release.

I have now made all of the suggestions that I can think of. My intention was only to try to help you, like with anybody else on this message-board - please let's not have some sort of heated debate about this. When you work out any solution, please post it on this forum, to benefit all of us.

If you want to be a tester for CCS64, or perhaps help in the development of CCS64, then I am sure that Hakan will be delighted to have more help - just e-mail him.

I really do not want to insult you but if you are really the only beta tester for CCS64 then this is no good. Only different settings and different machines can provide a clear result. No matter if you are an experienced software developer or Bill Gates himself.

Nevertheless it would be very interesting to know what CCS64 does when hitting quit. Maybe you can get hold of a debug version to see what is the cause of these crashes.

ClarkKent wrote:I really do not want to insult you but if you are really the only beta tester for CCS64 then this is no good.

You did already needlessly insult me in your previous reply.

As I mentioned before, if you want to be a beta-tester for CCS64, then please e-mail Hakan directly. Of course, I agree, it would be good to have more testers, because some problems only occur with some configurations. I always do my best to test CCS64, prior to it getting released; but, as you rightly mention, I am only one person and have only one computer. I test the EXEs of CCS64 that Hakan e-mails me and report any problems back to him - I don't develop/build it, since only Hakan has the actual source code, so it's pointless asking me to look in to code changes, debug reports, etc., since I physically can't. Like I said before, I don't know how many testers Hakan has for CCS64. If you feel so strongly about the fact that I'm the only beta-tester of CCS64, then please volunteer your efforts to this worthy cause, especially as Hakan and myself have less and less time nowadays to devote to CCS64 development.

Please e-mail Hakan with your concerns (like anybody can), since I cannot reproduce your problems, and I don't have the source code myself. I only have contact with him via e-mail myself. Just because I'm the Chief Tester (for want of a better description) of CCS64, it doesn't mean to say other people can't contact him - we're all CCS64 Users at the end of the day and we all want a better emulator.

ClarkKent wrote:BUT - unfortunately - when quitting cc64.exe it crashes (screen freezes) and I have to start the task manager to kill the task to be able to return to Windows .

BUG CONFIRMED:
I have re-tested CCS64 and I can now confirm this bug. CCS64 hangs for me when I try to exit the emulator, but only when I enable the Sync To Screen (VSync) feature. If I do not use the Sync To Screen option, CCS64 exits normally. So, this problem must be related to the multi-threading code change(s) made in CCS64 V3.9 for VSync. My apologies, but it's not a feature that I normally use. If you switch to non-VSync prior to quitting, then CCS64 should quit normally (as a work-around, until this gets fixed).

Stuart Toomer wrote:

ClarkKent wrote:BUT - unfortunately - when quitting cc64.exe it crashes (screen freezes) and I have to start the task manager to kill the task to be able to return to Windows .

BUG CONFIRMED:
I have re-tested CCS64 and I can now confirm this bug. CCS64 hangs for me when I try to exit the emulator, but only when I enable the Sync To Screen (VSync) feature. If I do not use the Sync To Screen option, CCS64 exits normally. So, this problem must be related to the multi-threading code change(s) made in CCS64 V3.9 for VSync. My apologies, but it's not a feature that I normally use. If you switch to non-VSync prior to quitting, then CCS64 should quit normally (as a work-around, until this gets fixed).

CCS64 V3.9 has been re-released with a fix to this crashing-on-quitting bug. Release Date is 9-June-2012. Please re-download.